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Kevin Matthews Joined: 13 Apr 2004 Posts: 614 Location: Eugene, Oregon	Posted: Thu Oct 12, 2006 3:42 pm    Post subject: ArchWeek - Modeling Rules This forum thread is for discussion of the ArchitectureWeek article:
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deesee Joined: 17 Oct 2006 Posts: 1	Posted: Tue Oct 17, 2006 3:06 pm    Post subject: I agree with everything that was said in this article. I am curious though...how do you get subcontractors to model their work? Many subcontractors that we work with, do so right out of their trucks...the most technology that they have is a cell phone and maybe a hotmail address. In other words, I felt that many of the ideals discussed are unrealistic for the majority of the architecture and engineering profession. How many of us are still trying to convince folks to go to Design-Build? How many engineers or architects do you know who are still using AutoCAD 14. I think the deep integration of BIM to the degree discussed in the article, would only occur on very large and complex projects being carried out by large firms with extensive resources. I do feel the frustration everyday when you can't even get engineers and other design consultants to buy into BIM. I think they're all missing the boat. The road ahead is a tough one, and honestly I don't think we'll get to the Utopian destination highlighted in this article on a mass scale. Nevertheless, the idea is to get as close as possible and to bring the most people along for the ride right?
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dalani Joined: 02 Nov 2006 Posts: 1	Posted: Thu Jan 11, 2007 5:05 pm    Post subject: BIM who has time? BIM who has time? On most project schedules, the time it takes to develop a single element in a building model, can be used to draw up BID drawing set for pricing!!! By the time the toilets are drawn in 3d complete with plumbing, the real project can be built and already occupied. Seriously, does anyone see how resource hungry (in man/hours) a full BIM strategy really is?? I think the automotive industry and other series value added design (eg.helicopters) can benefit more from BIM than architecture. The only BIM makes sense in architecture is when all disciplines agree to an open standard to allow layering the disparate traded together for full design analysis. And a budget ($ and time) is provided to allow BIM to take place in parallel with normal project schedules.
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archiwei Joined: 29 Dec 2006 Posts: 34	Posted: Mon Jan 22, 2007 9:57 pm    Post subject: for presentation or for study?....goal decides method _________________ ****************************** Architectural Rendering http://www.archiz.com ****************************** Tips & Tutorials for 3D rendering http://archiz-tips.blogspot.com ******************************
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RebarApps Joined: 06 Jan 2009 Posts: 3 Location: Buffalo, NY USA	Posted: Thu Jul 30, 2009 6:16 am    Post subject: BIM will come in time. It is a great idea that works conceptually. However, technology is not the greatest obstacle to overcome. It develops and is picked up over time. The greatest obstacle is communication and cooperation between ALL trades, professionals and contractors. I work as an independent subcontractor for rebar detailing. I ask for a CAD file to accelerate the work, gain accuracy and produce better product. Usually I get a denied or a request to pay $200 per file. Without the cooperation and caste system (some people feel they are better than others) changing, BIM will not go forward or to the depths which it could be fully integrated. Attitudes and perception will have to change on all levels of implementation to succeed.
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pbacot Joined: 15 Apr 2004 Posts: 959 Location: Northern California	Posted: Thu Jul 30, 2009 8:42 am    Post subject: I should remember to charge $200 for my CAD files. But really, if someone is involved in the project I have no problem passing them on. There are a lot of reasons besides the "caste" system. 1. Design work is copyright material. You don't just give CAD files to others for no reason. 2. CAD work represents real time and expense invested. Some persons asking for files may not be "qualified" by the project process to have these files given to them freely, saving them the expense that the original person had to invest. People receiving original CAD design files should not be re-using them for other projects. There needs to be a protocol. 3. Sometimes providing CAD files can lead one to legal problems if they are misused or if the recipient decides to "pick them apart". The recipient may decide to use them to discredit the designer and get more work for themselves etc. Again there has to be a project protocol on who gets the CAD files and for what purpose. I provided some files to a contractor who developed his own framing plan from them. It was really great. But few would do that or be able to. I am at the point where BIM is just so much extra that no one wants to pay for. They want the Permit plans first, then they want to build. I think it would be cool to build the models among the consultants and have them move into the builder's realm, then the owners'. The time may come. Setting standards too early may cause more work than it saves as technology continues to progress. Witness the cumbersome AIA CAD layer system. Is it all getting too geeky and OCD for most projects? _________________ Peter B
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RebarApps Joined: 06 Jan 2009 Posts: 3 Location: Buffalo, NY USA	Posted: Thu Jul 30, 2009 10:25 am    Post subject: I agree with the copyright, possible misuse and understand the real time and expense incurred to develop the plans. In my line, the plans will only expedite my process, thus the project and the plans are being in used conjunction with the project. I would say that 80% of the time, I can not get the CAD files. So its frustrating. Glad to hear someone learned to share. Because as you point out, it can be great. For BIM I see this as a roadblock and a big question. One conceptual goal of BIM is to have ONE model that could be developed and utilized by all. But the question is who does it and pays for this? I can see the owner doing so, but again, the resistance to share and work together can be present. I have already heard of such problems, in there are 4 or 5 models for the same structure, based of trade or profession. (That is OCD and the direct opposite of what your trying to do!) Granted, the models could be used for different applications and testing (ie structure, lighting) But this highlights the part of the building culture that until over come will be a stumbling block for BIM. And yes, until BIM becomes more mainstream, technologically simpler and has the cohesive cooperation, the average Joe Contractor will not care about nor will implement to install that bathroom addition to your public school's ADD/ALT.
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ArchitectureWeek DesignCommunity Forum Index » Architectural 3D CAD Discussion

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