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Kevin
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Joined: 13 Apr 2004
Posts: 1349
Location: Eugene, Oregon
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 Posted: Mon Oct 26, 2009 6:57 am Post subject: Arch. Curriculum - manual drawing still needed? |
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Posted on behalf of Oliver E, due to filtering issues:
Dear Architects,
I am a high school teacher in Queensland teaching senior graphics to year 11 and 12 students. I'm currently working out a new direction for our graphics program and in an effort to teach material that is useful for further education (Uni) and closely related to what happens in the real world, I would love some suggestions in regard to the following questions:
Is it still necessary for our students to learn how to use drawing boards, t-squares and setsquares, or should we push for the students to do their learning on Cad packages such as Revit or ArchiCAD?
Is it necessary for students to learn how to construct a complex measuring point perspective, or is this technique now somewhat obsolete considering computer modelling and rendering?
Should the students be familiar with manual rendering techniques, or is this also now largely left to Cad packages?
We still have a strong emphasis on sketching for the purpose of the development of ideas, including some tone rendering.
I would very much appreciate any thoughts you may have on this topic, and perhaps suggestions for the betterment of secondary school senior graphics.
Thanks in advance,
Oli |
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mx2
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Joined: 18 Jan 2006
Posts: 1977
Location: Miami, Florida
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| Posted: Mon Oct 26, 2009 5:51 pm Post subject: |
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Great question! IMHO, yes to all of the above. The best experience for students is to learn awareness of the history and experience the mediums that have been used. Now that said, it does not seem practical for students to purchase t-squares and angles for a short practice before they delve into the world of CAD. I would recommend they learn AutoCAD (Autodesk), along with Revit and other rendering tools. But I would stress the idea that eventually, if they pursue a career in this industry, they will undoubtedly work on CAD anyway. The greatest value they could learn early are the skills of dexterity and visualization, ie., sketching, illustrating and understanding perspective, space, depth, etc. A valuable concept I learned early on was the notion of foreground vs background and filling sketchbooks with all kinds of assignments and whims.
The people who seem the weakest in this industry are those that don't have the various skills. If they rely upon computers to provide "eye candy" they don't possess the skills to understand the dynamics that create the end results.
mx2.5
_________________
*Art of Architecture: The conscious use of skill and creative imagination in the production of an aesthetic building.
*Science of Architecture: The calculated use of technical skill and knowledge in the construction of a functional building. |
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Kevin
Site Admin
Joined: 13 Apr 2004
Posts: 1349
Location: Eugene, Oregon
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| Posted: Tue Oct 27, 2009 6:46 am Post subject: |
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Posted on behalf of Oliver E, due to filtering issues:
Thank you so very much for your input mx2, it's very valuable to me.
I have observed in previous years that those students who had an ability in visualisation and art in general were much more able to produce CAD renders that had the wow factor. An understanding of camera position and lighting makes a huge difference.
Given that visualisation and perspective is an important part in the industry, I'm assuming that it may not be so important to teach colour rendering with pastels and alcohol markers, but instead the principles of sketching and perspectives, fore and background as you have mentioned.
Further, the principles of perspective, and sketching it, are more important than learning the how to construct a complex measuring multi-point perspective using either the drawing board or AutoCAD. We have done both, and it is very time consuming to draw hundreds of visual rays and projections lines to come up with a precise perspective representation of an object given dimensions, eye height, distance to observer yadda, yadda. I'm thinking that this time would be better spent sketching and learning various sketching concepts, and practising those skills through various exercises.
Am I on the right track...?
I'd love lots of suggestions. If you have a point of view, please share it. |
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lekizz
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Joined: 11 Jan 2006
Posts: 1212
Location: UK
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| Posted: Tue Oct 27, 2009 8:38 am Post subject: |
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Unfortunately a large number of architecture graduates will find themselves working as 'CAD monkeys' for the first few years of their career. It's not really something to aspire to! It is simply a necessity of the job, to be able to translate designs into accurate measured drawings to be used by other members of the design team, builders and contractors etc.
To come up with ideas in architecture, one tends not to start with CAD, but rather using pens, pencils, scale rulers, collage, paint etc. How you describe your ideas will depend on the qualities of the end product, if it is precise and hi-tech then maybe computer lines will work well. But at college there is often a premium on hand drawing and the creation of beautiful graphics. After all, architecture is not just about cartesian geometry but also about senses, experience, space and other less definable attributes. |
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teamjdc
Joined: 25 Oct 2007
Posts: 344
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| Posted: Thu Oct 29, 2009 2:03 am Post subject: |
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| Absolutely yes! |
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innova+e
Joined: 21 Dec 2007
Posts: 63
Location: lisbon
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| Posted: Fri Oct 30, 2009 3:40 pm Post subject: |
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| I agree whole heartedly with mx2 and lekizz. Cad can be taught, to the degree that two draftsmen or women/architects can produce a very similar product. However, when I teach students to illustrate ideas, it's always through the traditional medium that we start. It's undoubtedly important for them to hone their skills by drawing perspectival works, free hand sketch, just as much as the orthographic mechanical drawings. In the field, more often than not I've had to convey the sense of measured Cad drawings by hand sketching, sometimes perspective or axo, over top. The important aspect is just that, conveyance of the idea for cohesive understanding. Some will have a natural talent for it, but it IS something that can be taught, through lineweight, texture, depth etc.. Good luck and keep up the good work! acg. |
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csintexas
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Joined: 06 Feb 2006
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Location: USA
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| Posted: Sat Oct 31, 2009 6:52 am Post subject: |
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Drafting is drafting no matter what the specific tools are so for me it would be more about the economics of drafting boards vs. computers (at the grade school level)
Perspectives are not likely to ever be done by drafting board by the current generation.
Hand drawing is actually a very useful skill. Not just learning how to sketch an apple for example, but hand drawing floorplans, elevations, perspectives, etc. with no mechanical devices other than a straight edge.
Hand drawing is also a generally useful skill that can be used no matter what career they actually do.
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http://bcshdb.blogspot.com >
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svenglezz-ASMEIL
Joined: 18 Nov 2004
Posts: 99
Location: Toronto
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| Posted: Mon Nov 02, 2009 11:16 am Post subject: |
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Everyone should experience (ch'icken-tracks)
(caused from not brushing enough, leaving tiny' pieces of led' on the mylar).
The (Autocad or similar) basics' are the core to any good designer, and not being applied enough nowadays's.
My advice, keep things simple, that includes the software 
I'd stick with AutoCad basic's (or similar) and look at the Google Sketchup for presenting 3D it's FREE
In a very short time can have 3D walkthru's and post on youtube for added music for free. Not to mention you can use almost any computer and don't need some super micro-computer and huge data files.
That's my advice, simple, correct and efficient is way more important then the complexity of fancy-pants renders and softwares
I'd look more at working drawings / construction drawings and all the other disciplines in a building that effect the architectural. This skill alone would be very valuable to any architectural firm.
My web site I have some free cad dwg' charts to download for this ASMEIL'ing and may want to look at it, great way for students etc. get started working on a project with minimal supervision, and provide a great help.
Don't hesitate to contact me for any help,
Sven
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Kevin
Site Admin
Joined: 13 Apr 2004
Posts: 1349
Location: Eugene, Oregon
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| Posted: Sat Nov 07, 2009 11:05 am Post subject: |
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Posted on behalf of Oliver E, due to filtering issues:
Thank you all again for your terrific feedback. I very much appreciate the time you're taking to write comments and it's immensely helpful to me.
I would love more opinions if you have the time to reply to this post.
From what I'm hearing here I'm thinking that illustrating using sketching skills including simple rendering, perspective and other pictorials, simple floor plans and elevations are absolutely essential, but when it comes to technical drawings, that should be done on the computer.
It needs to be remembered also that we are talking about high school students here (pre university 16-17 year old), trying to give them a bit of an introduction into the industry and an overview, common drawing symbols and standards, technologies used and, of course, sketching techniques.
Please keep the comments coming. |
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csintexas
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Joined: 06 Feb 2006
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Location: USA
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| Posted: Sun Nov 08, 2009 8:07 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | From what I'm hearing here I'm thinking that illustrating using sketching skills including simple rendering, perspective and other pictorials, simple floor plans and elevations are absolutely essential, but when it comes to technical drawings, that should be done on the computer. |
That may have been others opinion but not mine. I think this is simply a matter of resources available. If your school can afford computers and software that is fine, otherwise a good old drafting board would work just as well. Drafting is drafting no matter which particular tools are used. The industry is moving toward BIM and 3d, the old 2d Autocad is phasing out.
I don't use Autocad, I use Softplan others use Chief Architect, Archicad, Sketchup, etc. and so I don't think it is necessary to teach any specific CAD platform at the high school level.
At least I would not think your goal would be to train CAD technicians but rather to develop a basic appreciation for architecture.
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http://bcshdb.blogspot.com >
The B/CS Home Design Blog |
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djswan
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Joined: 17 Aug 2007
Posts: 1121
Location: Montana, USA
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| Posted: Sun Nov 08, 2009 2:59 pm Post subject: |
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| Kevin wrote: | Posted on behalf of Oliver E, due to filtering issues:
From what I'm hearing here I'm thinking that illustrating using sketching skills including simple rendering, perspective and other pictorials, simple floor plans and elevations are absolutely essential, but when it comes to technical drawings, that should be done on the computer.
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I just drew our next project on a paper plate. My kids can draw better than me and the eight yr old is knows Sketchup.  I'm not an architect but that doesn't stop me from building and apparently niether does the drawing skills.  We do technical drawings for everything and the computer still can't keep up with what gets built. The details on the white board or the radom chunk of 2x4 shoved in the bags is what gets built.
Hope this helps
Derek
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Kevin
Site Admin
Joined: 13 Apr 2004
Posts: 1349
Location: Eugene, Oregon
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| Posted: Mon Nov 09, 2009 9:58 pm Post subject: |
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Posted on behalf of Oliver E due to filtering issues:
Thanks once more everyone.
At our school we've been able to get an Autodesk Educational package including Autocad, Revit, Inventor, 3Dsm - fantastic software. So naturally we're keen to use it. But I'm also aware that one doesn't always have a computer handy to quickly document or communicate an idea. Apart from that it would take too long - especially on the building site or in the workshop. Therefore I'm keen to have my students do lot's of sketching. Complex measuring point perspectives in CAD are probably outdated, while the principles of sketching perspectives must be maintained.
As far as rendering goes - and I'd love even more opinions on this - I'm still undecided. Would I be correct in saying that some simple illustrating skills on sketches are needed, while serious rendering should be left to computer modeling?
The students certainly get very excited about the modeling part - to be able to draw a house, do a virtual walk or fly-through and then photo render whichever view is desired. They will dedicate hours to making it eyecandy - but I worry about the educational value of rendering in such a way. |
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csintexas
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Joined: 06 Feb 2006
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| Posted: Tue Nov 10, 2009 9:55 am Post subject: |
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I would say all CAD software operates on the same basic principles. They only vary within the specific steps or procedure used. Once you have learned to do it in Autocad you will be better at learning to do it in any other platform. So there is basic value of learning CAD because almost all design is done on CAD these days.
| Quote: |
As far as rendering goes - and I'd love even more opinions on this - I'm still undecided. Would I be correct in saying that some simple illustrating skills on sketches are needed, while serious rendering should be left to computer modeling? |
I would agree.
I think this all depends on what your goal is.
How many of your students will actually continue on a college track to architecture, engineering, illustration or technical school for drafting?
Are the majority of them just filling an elective requirement with something they may find interesting?
Ideally the education of each person would be somewhat determined by that individuals goals and abilities.
I think basic hand drawing skills are a useful thing to learn no matter what career a person ends up in. I think a basic appreciation of architecture is also a good thing to have in general.
| Quote: | | Apart from that it would take too long - especially on the building site or in the workshop. |
I agree, you could consume a lot of class time on teaching the mechanics of CAD.
We had quite a bit of flexibility in my high school drafting class. Some where interested in engineering drawings some in architecture some in illustration. The teacher allowed each person to pursue their own interests.
I don't recall ever taking a "test". We where simply required to produce something.
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http://bcshdb.blogspot.com >
The B/CS Home Design Blog |
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