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P.C.
millennium club
Joined: 26 May 2004
Posts: 2163
Location: Denmark
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 Posted: Wed Nov 29, 2006 6:27 am Post subject: |
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| I find this one quite 3D-H inspired |
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SDR
millennium club
Joined: 02 Oct 2004
Posts: 1697
Location: San Francisco
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P.C.
millennium club
Joined: 26 May 2004
Posts: 2163
Location: Denmark
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| Posted: Sat Dec 23, 2006 5:05 am Post subject: |
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Yes I remember that --- still there are a bit of critic ,beside forgetting the credit to the man who spended I guess at that time some 12 years promote the method ---- but realy ,even it look spetacular it point to an architect who havn't develobed the method or don't know it in detail , as if you know what wonders a structure like this can perform, you would not attemt the foults using sections without hollowing them , without adding internal spaces within the "building mass" ,realy if you know what is possible with the method you would find these structures quite primitive ; like an architect who suddenly at the web saw a grand new method and idely draw a fantasy scene ,a scene to owerwhelme the spectator a structure made to spetacular dimensions with no real reson and, sadly with not enough feel about what is realy possible.
--- I wonder if it will be build , as these foults and the lack of feel and thought maybe make the project to complicated , and that is a shame with a method that is in fact so simple. |
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P.C.
millennium club
Joined: 26 May 2004
Posts: 2163
Location: Denmark
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| Posted: Sat Dec 23, 2006 7:22 am Post subject: |
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| Plase let me add that it seem the architect are somehow alian towerd the ability of these structures ,also when you look at his other work it stand clear that he learned nothing from 3D-H , --- it's like a hippie dream ,organic shapes with no real visions , eyecandy more than serious innovation, a fast win that seem to leave no imprint or a new architecture and ; I guess the trivial issues develobing a new building technique, such as the impac on production and the options in develobing new Eco friendly sheet materials, beside the whole Digital issue about it, move way over the head of that architect, --- now this is what realy make me wonder about these architects ; why is is it is so easy for them , just to rob the fruit of a decade of hard work for orthers, and how is it some architects can bring others visions attemting the innovation to be their own, Gee I would newer act like a thief in this way , how come these fasion architects own no moral consider no etics, --- just emagine me "borrowing" one of said architect's "idears" ; there you would hear a swine houl. |
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DeliC
Joined: 20 Dec 2006
Posts: 9
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| Posted: Sat Dec 23, 2006 7:56 am Post subject: |
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| and what is it exactly? I don't get what it's for. |
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P.C.
millennium club
Joined: 26 May 2004
Posts: 2163
Location: Denmark
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| Posted: Sat Dec 23, 2006 10:17 am Post subject: |
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| -- To honor the aproach of finaly a computer generated buildnig mass substance shuld be obvious but, I simply don understand the mind of trend architects, those who omit the basic creative process and just make a spetacular, fiest instalation ; it's not the thiveri the smog lack of reson ,what realy anoy me is the common spread of ignorance, ignorance towerd what shuld be the issue honeysty and comford --- now only a criminal can feel comford, so that's what it's about. |
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P.C.
millennium club
Joined: 26 May 2004
Posts: 2163
Location: Denmark
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| Posted: Sat Dec 23, 2006 10:31 am Post subject: |
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For some of these designers who tried projecting a building structure with 3D-H this one , by not even mentioning that this structure can be used for other things than fread hippie comford gadging a competision but to lazy to try manufactor it. Who know maybe the clumpsy Serpentine rigidwork and a misread of what 3D-H is about carry more weight compared for no reson, blob shaped canvas , as the festival clown dresses where realy, this is a spoil compared, the fine cheap houses at a third the cost, a different architectural aproach will bring.
Still this is bound to happen, any revolusionary new idea, are pray to criminals, --- but why must criminals be so Dumm ? Grap a splendid idea and the food out of some artist mouth , and then go make a clown dress or a fiddled rugid, for sake not near the beauty it culd have done, feeding a crowd of fat academics , and Yes I know, they acturly Learn that in architect schools. Jnow there been there remember -- for me school was just holding me back, still this realy was my greatest disapointment about arts schools , thivery hace somehow rendered it's way being tolerated, 3D-H could have been an all time solution bringing modern fabric and fame design , thives wouldn't have that ; gee when do you Romans expect new nice designs with that aproach ? |
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SDR
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Joined: 02 Oct 2004
Posts: 1697
Location: San Francisco
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| Posted: Sat Dec 23, 2006 7:10 pm Post subject: |
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DeliC, this is what the project is for, apparently:
'The project includes "an archeological site, a farmers market, an elevated plaza, multiple bars and restaurants underneath and inside the parasols, as well as a panorama terrace on the very top of the parasols." '
' "Metropol Parasol", a redevelopment project by J. Mayer H. for Plaza de la Encarnacion in Seville, Spain is . . .under construction and is expected to be complete this year.'
P.C., did the builder of the second stone wall "steal" from the builder of the first one ? Did the builder of the second Corinthian temple "steal" from the builder of the first one ? Did the builder of the second Roman acqueduct "steal" from the builder of the first one ? Did the builder of the second vaulted and buttressed stone cathedral "steal" from the builder of the first one ? Did the builder of the second iron truss railroad bridge "steal" from the builder of the first one ? Did the builder of the second steel-cable suspension bridge "steal" from the builder of the first one ?
If you have contributed a generic building construction type, be grateful and proud. Eggcrates are a lot older than you or me. Bitter and resentful protestation, like failure of any kind, is boring and will not get you what you want. Neither will incoherent text. Cheer up, and keep contributing ! Life is too short to do otherwise. . . 
SDR |
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P.C.
millennium club
Joined: 26 May 2004
Posts: 2163
Location: Denmark
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| Posted: Sun Dec 24, 2006 4:11 am Post subject: |
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| SDR it must be a sweet tast to defend the thief and steal the bread out of the mouth of the real artist. |
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SDR
millennium club
Joined: 02 Oct 2004
Posts: 1697
Location: San Francisco
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| Posted: Sun Dec 24, 2006 10:55 am Post subject: |
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Per -- Are you sure you didn't "steal" your idea from the honeybees ?
The towers of the Golden Gate Bridge in San Francisco were built with parallel rectangular cells of steel -- in 1936. There really is very little that is new. It's what you DO with an idea that distinguishes it, and the artist.
Where are your construction details ? Where is a glazing detail ? Where are the calculations that support your claims of cost and strength ?
Many a parent has made exaggerated claims for their "perfect children." It's time to move on to the messy work of actually getting something built -- or even adequately documented -- rather than shouting to the skies that you've been robbed, by those that are actually doing it. Don't you think ?
Do you like to draw ? The best way to "own" an idea is to present it completely -- this is how it's done in the scientific community. If the "artist" needs the help of a structural engineer, so be it -- great architects the world over rely on the calculations of such specialists to see their ideas brought into the real world. Or are you content to be the "suffering and misunderstood genius artist" ?
Merry Christmas, and best wishes to you and yours.
SDR |
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P.C.
millennium club
Joined: 26 May 2004
Posts: 2163
Location: Denmark
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| Posted: Mon Dec 25, 2006 4:21 pm Post subject: |
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" Per -- Are you sure you didn't "steal" your idea from the honeybees ?
The towers of the Golden Gate Bridge in San Francisco were built with parallel rectangular cells of steel -- in 1936. There really is very little that is new. It's what you DO with an idea that distinguishes it, and the artist."
Glad I been able to open your mind and eyes to these particular details, and true there are transverse stringers in many structures but -- try remember that these was made with computers not made as an assembly structure fit to fill out any Solid model with a computer generated structure, and that difference count.
"Where are your construction details ? Where is a glazing detail ? Where are the calculations that support your claims of cost and strength ?"
I did not promise the details you expect I offer something much better , a computer generated structure anyone with a bit sense can put in the program fit for that and as you know many CAD progeams today offer just the things you ask they calculate the stress and even put it in colors --- bside ,as a 3D-H is generated by the computer, then don't you think it carry enough information to acturly cut the building framse and what is more important than that, try compare that with the information you can make a brick yield.
"Many a parent has made exaggerated claims for their "perfect children." It's time to move on to the messy work of actually getting something built -- or even adequately documented -- rather than shouting to the skies that you've been robbed, by those that are actually doing it. Don't you think ?"
No and I don't think you will wonder that much, why I repeat my intelectural right as being the one inventing , thinking, develobing, and finaly testing the concept in a number of 3D drawings remember, that the 3D drawing is just as much "doing it" as having it done by some workers.
"Do you like to draw ? The best way to "own" an idea is to present it completely -- this is how it's done in the scientific community."
Why is that, --- so if I don't do it from my rules , then you can laugh and support criminals ? What make you the right to decide the rules for my creativity ?
"If the "artist" needs the help of a structural engineer, so be it -- great architects the world over rely on the calculations of such specialists to see their ideas brought into the real world. Or are you content to be the "suffering and misunderstood genius artist" ?"
What you express here seem to be the same ; you seem to justify the thives by the fact that I do not follow your set of rules, --- what are your defination of an artist one that do it your way , and those who don't you are willing to deliver to the criminal minds.
And no, no happy cristmess here, guess why. But you wouldn't care would you ? |
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P.C.
millennium club
Joined: 26 May 2004
Posts: 2163
Location: Denmark
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| Posted: Mon Dec 25, 2006 4:50 pm Post subject: |
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"this is how it's done in the scientific community." "
And then WHAT ?? SDR is it scientists that come up with revolusionary methods ? MUST I be a scientist to be an artist SDR ? Isn't it enough that I had near four years at the acadamy am a reliable craftsman is a computer specialist ?
Must I be what you are before you realise, that it is wrong supporting criminal minds before you realise that it is quite natural that a guy who spended the years at the acadamy and am the computer specialist it requier , acturly can come up with something that is his "product" to deliver, or is the sad truth that you find joy in this, find joy that some guy are being robbed an intelectural right that you would give a damn -- as if you can't get it anyway while you are a scientist or a car seller ,-----you don't want one who earned it the privilige, do you like yourself to be robbed your work, what is supposed to bring your the bread ? ; you see the work I do is develobing building methods and I am sorry this conflict with your demands about who and how it MUST be done --- and this don't give you the right to support thivery, acturly when you do that with so lame arguments, it tell it's own story.
"this is how it's done in the scientific community." --- and that is your reson to support the thive ; becaurse what I do do not commit with your expertations about "how things are done" , sorry SDR that's to low.
And again thank's for that cristmess , the cristmess you wish me , the cristmess where the guy been robbed as "this is how it's done in the scientific community." |
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david fonseca
Joined: 15 Jan 2007
Posts: 4
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| Posted: Mon Jan 15, 2007 5:57 am Post subject: |
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Hi PC, i was reading trough this and some other of your posts for the last few days. and i must say when i started your ideas looked very interesting.
but in something like 4 years they evolved 0.
if you say that you are just an artist, please get someone to do the real architectural work for you! or else just make paintings with your work, or digital art if u prefer.
and please don't say that arup steeled your work, because as it is, you only have some nice dreams, they have real buildings.
and you may say that scientists don't come up with revolutionary methods (witch i disagree), but at least they make them possible.
i guess i don't say nothing that hasn't been said by lots of people on this topic, but i hate to see good ideas ruined because you think you are an artist, and artists can just sit and wait for someone to give them money for their ideas.
good luck with your work
David Fonseca |
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P.C.
millennium club
Joined: 26 May 2004
Posts: 2163
Location: Denmark
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| Posted: Mon Jan 15, 2007 7:09 am Post subject: |
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Hi
I understand what you say, still who are to decide how an artist work, in what way architects get their vision and , how many visions and wonderfull concepts havn't allready been patronised.
See -- you must remember that it is not just 4 but some 13 years soon, that when you seen the other lookalike structures remember that the most important issues such as what this mean in terms of how computers now can be used, issues such as a clean start to develob true Eco friendly materials just by shhet material, issues such as how this method offer total control over the intire structure each little piece and how now hundreds of various materials is now replaced with just one, --- and the issues can go on .
But documented I started promoting this new method years before those others mentioned, and there are the fact issue, that none of these seem to realy understand how unique in all aspects, by design manufactoring, and perception of the build work this method work.
No one have challanced the old methods as I do with this method, thruout by my overall knowleage about how today's architectural applications and computer programs work thruout decribed this new revolution in building technikes ---- and still , and please don't let this offend you but ; am an artist to be skilled as God to reach the plain credit --- am an artist supposed to master AutoCAD and the computer in general, be a master builder, be a fame and know all the right people before what he documented is credited ?
Remember what demands you just set up , even I documented this method for so many years , even it is so unique that everyone will reconise it, even it is one of those inventions where you say "Gee it is so simple why havn't anyone thought about this before" --- remember what demands you put up ; how do you expect that anyone could live up to that --- build a house , ontop spending ones whole life develobing what everyone screem out for , finaly a method that turn the creative method upside down and work with today's computers, and ontop you acturly expect a degree in engineering a professorship in architecture and becaurse I can't document that, but only 3 years at the architect acadamy and a life long experience in arts and crafts , documented by projects at the finest workshops ---- then you forget that those who started their computer and "borrowed" a splendid idea that someone put his name on, in all examples proven that they don't even understand the simplest side effects, and just tread the method as a fast way to do something spetacular.
I like to continue this discussion , but I hope you now see that it is great Demands you put up , --- still you seem to forget that I have Delivered, I have develobed a wonderfull new method no one thought about before , one that solve so many structural issues, ---- then why must I be an architectural professor, a master engineer, a profesional building constructor ,a visionary writer and a poet before you allow the credit and start complaining about the bright guy being robbed ? |
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P.C.
millennium club
Joined: 26 May 2004
Posts: 2163
Location: Denmark
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| Posted: Mon Jan 15, 2007 7:37 am Post subject: |
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P.s.
Why is it btw. that a poor artist being robbed the credit have to spend a few millions building a house to "prove" the idea that have been stolen and "proved" by others ?
If I published a book on the web, as how I for so many years have published and in thousands of articles discussed and xplained , if this was a picture or a new great idea about the univers --- would you then expect robbery of the intelectural rights ,for a book, for a painting, for any artistic work or any bright new idea unless everyone would calle it a documented thivery ? |
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