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pnjarich
Joined: 26 Jul 2009
Posts: 3
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phansford
Joined: 18 Apr 2004
Posts: 832
Location: SW Ohio
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 Posted: Mon Jul 27, 2009 5:07 am Post subject: Re: Portico / Color Advice in Charlottesville, VA |
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A few comments to start. This house is almost alright. The overall form and proportion seems right. Its the use of materials and the handling of the materials that make this house a dude. This house could be turned into a little gem if the work you are contemplating is done correctly. It could turn out to be a nice little Jeffersonian Cottage.
| pnjarich wrote: | | 1. The width on the porch looks to be about 18 feet. Given that width, how deep is optimal? Is 4 ft too shallow? Does 5 ft make more sense? |
The depth depends on how you want to use the porch. I would do 6 feet - which should allow you to sit comfortable on the porch. Plus - 6 feet is proportional to your width and will be more pleasing.
| pnjarich wrote: | | 2. We originally planned on two pillars - with brick piers topped by tapered square columns. Will they seem too spaced out? Would four make more sense? |
Its four or nothing. IMHO. Again - using Jefferson as a model. They should be wood and don't need to have a brick base. Round would be best - but square should work. They need to be proportional correct. Don't do anything under 12 inches. I would probably do 16 square columns. I might make them thinner to conserve porch space and a little homage to Robert Venturi (inside architect's joke).
| pnjarich wrote: | | 3. Our siding color preference is red - something akin to the hardiplank Countrylane Red. Any thoughts on how much this might clash with the brick? |
No - stay white. And make sure you add the trim boards. Particularly around the windows and at the corners. Do it right. If you can - add a cornice board at the top of the siding to complete the wall.
Again - I think you can make this house look wonderful and make it look like a little Jeffersonian cottage. Its in the details and does NOT add much to the cost.
I like the columns on this little porch - yours need to be bigger. And notice the wide trim board with a simple crown mold at the top of the walls to complete the siding.
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Checkpoint43
Joined: 22 Mar 2007
Posts: 180
Location: Lexington, VA
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| Posted: Mon Jul 27, 2009 8:30 am Post subject: |
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Peter,
From your description, 2 or 4 pillars (Brick Piers topped by tapered square columns), I believe you want the Craftsman Bungelow look.
This should compliment your cottage nicely.
I've designed several homes and additions in Charlottesville, and I can help you with yours.
Roy Shafer
Residential Design Services
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pnjarich
Joined: 26 Jul 2009
Posts: 3
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| Posted: Mon Jul 27, 2009 8:32 am Post subject: Thanks |
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Thanks for the quick comments.
We completely agree that a little work can turn the house into a nice place. "Good bones" as they say.
Given the proportions of the porch, I'm not sure if 6ft would be too deep, but I appreciate the input to do deeper rather than more shallow. I can tell you, going to four pillars will be a battle with my wife - she thinks it will be too crowded with more than two. White is another battle that I don't think can be won. If we're looking for a little color, so you think lighter is better then?
Thanks again.
Peter
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phansford
Joined: 18 Apr 2004
Posts: 832
Location: SW Ohio
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| Posted: Mon Jul 27, 2009 10:38 am Post subject: Re: Thanks |
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FWIW - I don't think this house lends itself to being a bungalow. I think it would be forced. You could do it, but the entire front facade is very symmetrical and staying "colonial" or classical seems to be more appropriate.
| pnjarich wrote: | | Given the proportions of the porch, I'm not sure if 6ft would be too deep, but I appreciate the input to do deeper rather than more shallow. |
You are creating an exterior living space by having the gable extended as you describe. This means you need to think about the proportion INSIDE that space. 6 feet is the natural depth for a porch 18 feet wide. It is simple classical proportion of 1:3. What's the proportion of 5 to 18? History and experience have shown that using the classical proportions is pleasing to the human eye and body.
If you do five feet - you have to buy three trusses (they are typically spaces on 24 inch centers.) So 6 feet means adding very little in materials. No additional trusses, 18 SF more of concrete, about 1/2 sheet of plywood for the roof deck.... so the added cost is minimal.
Go measure a porch swing or the furniture you might put on the porch.... I think you'll quickly realize that 4 or 5 feet is not adequate.
If you are really ambitious, you could go and get some cardboard boxes from the local home appliance store and make a couple of mock-up columns. Get refrigerator boxes. A little work with a utility knife and duct tape should help you out.
All of that said - you need to check with the City to determine the front yard setback. This might all be moot if the front of the house is already at the minimum setback. The zoning department can answer that question.
| pnjarich wrote: | | I can tell you, going to four pillars will be a battle with my wife - she thinks it will be too crowded with more than two. |
The only way to make this decision is to draw both concepts and then make an informed decision. I personally would have the center spacing be slightly wider than the two outer spacings. This will give the entrance and door importance.
The columns on brick piers would be very compressed. Unlike the bungalow porch shown, which is elevated, your porch is at grade.
Again.... draw it several ways. Paper is cheaper than studs.
| pnjarich wrote: | | White is another battle that I don't think can be won. If we're looking for a little color, so you think lighter is better then? |
You can go with lighter colors. Or possible a gray with white trim - maybe look at some of the federal houses locally. Color is very subjective. I think going with red siding will detract from the existing brick of the center pavilion.
You get some color samples to test against the brick. James Hardie has color sample kits.
In the end - I recommend you find an architect who can help you out. I think even if you just get a schematic design or sketches for the front elevation you will be well served.
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pnjarich
Joined: 26 Jul 2009
Posts: 3
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| Posted: Mon Jul 27, 2009 7:06 pm Post subject: great suggestions - keep them coming... |
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Thanks again for the all the great input.
Your bungalow comment is a good one. I originally suggested if that was the look we wanted then we should consider the porch off-set. But the symmetry of the place is too much to be denied.
We're enough off the front road that I'm sure setback won't be an issue - and your logic on six feet it too compelling to be denied.
Now, all that's left is to decide on pillars and color. We're a bit disadvantaged since we close in a month and need to get all the renovation details nailed down this week (and we live about 2.5 hours away from the house). That said, we got a few architect recommendations from our realtor. Hopefully we can get to see them soon.
Thanks for all the good insights - feel free to send any more along.
Peter
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Checkpoint43
Joined: 22 Mar 2007
Posts: 180
Location: Lexington, VA
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| Posted: Mon Jul 27, 2009 8:33 pm Post subject: |
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phansford said: | Quote: | | The columns on brick piers would be very compressed. Unlike the bungalow porch shown, which is elevated, your porch is at grade. |
To clear up any misunderstanding, I posted a photo of a house which included the tapered columns you described.
Maybe this example would be better, because the porch is not elevated:
I'll be in Charlottesville this week, to check on the progress of another home addition.
Call me if you would like to meet. I sent you my number by email.
Thank you
Roy Shafer
Residential Design Services
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briklight
Joined: 22 Jun 2009
Posts: 8
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| Posted: Wed Jul 29, 2009 3:51 pm Post subject: Depth of Porch addition |
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I agree that 6' is minimum depth if you plan to use the porch for more than flower pots and a mailbox. Discussion of porch depth has been non-specific about whether the depth is the depth from the door to the face of the front gable, or to the face of the column bases, or to the nosing of the top step, etc.
I'm not sure that symmetry precludes thinking of this house as a bungalow. There really aren't any images of the Jeffersonian or Federal model with round columns. But staying with the bungalow notion, since the dimension of the structural part of tapered columns is less than that of the bases in most of the photos, the full size of the column bases illustrated does not all come out of the porch depth (or does not need to).
eg: a 24" base might sit forward of the deck slightly per checkpoint43's first bungalow image. His second image shows the porch deck flush with the column base faces, but the gable end set back from the deck edge by what looks to be at least 6".
Round columns make this less true, since I think they would want to land solidly on the deck, and not extend down to grade as in the first bungalow image.
Point is, in discussing this with your spouse, or mocking it up as phansford suggests, be aware of how you intend the top and bott of the column to meet the gable and the deck, so as not to get a surprise after you have framed it up. The important thing is that there be grace in both appearance and your ability to use the porch as intended.
As for color, you do not say whether you are planning to paint the existing lap siding, but I assume that you are. I don't thing that anything will clash with the brick - the used brick blend you have is very forgiving. After the porch is on, the brick will mostly be in shade, A lighter color will set it off better. I too suggest white as optimal, but it could be any light neutral like gray or tan to good effect.
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csintexas
millennium club
Joined: 06 Feb 2006
Posts: 2174
Location: USA
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| Posted: Thu Jul 30, 2009 9:42 am Post subject: |
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The problem I have with a strictly traditional approach is that the main roof pitch is much lower and the porch seems like a disjointed addition. I don't really like the brick and have to wonder if it would be better to paint it. The lack of overhangs and fascia is also a problem.
Here is a study:
This one has a bit of overhang that the real house does not have
I corrected that and the next two have virtually no overhang on the main house:
_________________
-Chris Stewart
http://bcshdb.blogspot.com >
The B/CS Home Design Blog |
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phansford
Joined: 18 Apr 2004
Posts: 832
Location: SW Ohio
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| Posted: Thu Jul 30, 2009 11:10 am Post subject: |
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| Chris - very nice. I like the paired columns myself.
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csintexas
millennium club
Joined: 06 Feb 2006
Posts: 2174
Location: USA
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| Posted: Thu Jul 30, 2009 11:46 am Post subject: |
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thanks,
The lack of overhang bothers me most (perhaps because it is not common here and I associate it with cheapness) It was probably not uncommon in colonial though. To me a darker color makes the roof look a little more substantial and disguises the lack of overhang.
Perhaps a bit of extra detail at the entry would help.
_________________
-Chris Stewart
http://bcshdb.blogspot.com >
The B/CS Home Design Blog |
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csintexas
millennium club
Joined: 06 Feb 2006
Posts: 2174
Location: USA
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| Posted: Thu Jul 30, 2009 12:25 pm Post subject: |
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one more
_________________
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http://bcshdb.blogspot.com >
The B/CS Home Design Blog |
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csintexas
millennium club
Joined: 06 Feb 2006
Posts: 2174
Location: USA
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| Posted: Thu Jul 30, 2009 1:15 pm Post subject: |
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OK just one more 
I am fairly happy with it. I might go just a bit deeper on the porch to 7' because of the distance from the side of the front door to the side of the porch.
_________________
-Chris Stewart
http://bcshdb.blogspot.com >
The B/CS Home Design Blog
Last edited by csintexas on Thu Jul 30, 2009 1:52 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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briklight
Joined: 22 Jun 2009
Posts: 8
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| Posted: Thu Jul 30, 2009 1:31 pm Post subject: Painted Brick |
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I understand the temptation to paint the brick, but eeewww!
I have inherited too much painted masonry in my life. Trust me, it will eventually become a pain in the patoot. Maybe not for you, but the next fellow, or the next.
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csintexas
millennium club
Joined: 06 Feb 2006
Posts: 2174
Location: USA
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| Posted: Thu Jul 30, 2009 1:54 pm Post subject: |
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I disagree. This is a small area and fairly protected. Good quality paint made for masonry should perform as well as any exterior paint.
_________________
-Chris Stewart
http://bcshdb.blogspot.com >
The B/CS Home Design Blog |
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