|
View previous topic :: View next topic
|
| Author |
Message |
phansford
Joined: 18 Apr 2004
Posts: 832
Location: SW Ohio
|
 Posted: Wed Sep 16, 2009 10:30 am Post subject: |
    |
|
| Checkpoint43 wrote: |
| Quote: | | My wife and I are buying a new place in Charlottesville, VA. |
| Quote: | | I can tell you, going to four pillars will be a battle with my wife - she thinks it will be too crowded with more than two. White is another battle that I don't think can be won. |
| Quote: | | We're a bit disadvantaged since we close in a month and need to get all the renovation details nailed down this week |
This obviously sets the stage, where we see a couple having design disagreements at a crucial stage in their purchase.
Obviously, you've never been married, so let me explain a little about tact and public relations.
Instead of encouraging this couple to move forward with their decision, which was obviously complimentary to the house's existing style, you decided to add fuel to the fire by forcing this couple to second-guess their choices. |
| Checkpoint43 wrote: | I was not the designer.
Therefore, you just called one of the best architects in Charlottesville, VA a theif, and accused him of attempting to steal one of Chris' designs. |
And I guess now you think you're a marriage counselor  |
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
Checkpoint43
Joined: 22 Mar 2007
Posts: 180
Location: Lexington, VA
|
| Posted: Wed Sep 16, 2009 11:37 am Post subject: |
|
|
Perhaps you should have started a new thread then.
And if you want to discuss marrage counseling, open a topic in the Fireside Forum.
I'll look for you there.
 |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
phansford
Joined: 18 Apr 2004
Posts: 832
Location: SW Ohio
|
| Posted: Wed Sep 16, 2009 1:17 pm Post subject: |
|
|
I typically don't respond to your posts because you are confrontational and seem to have real issues with architects. My first post this morning was a follow-up to SDR - not an attempt to bait you. So I can't figure out why you feel a need to flame away.
I compliment Chris on his design ideas - which I felt were thoughtful and more in keeping with the nature of the existing house than the executed design. For whatever reason you turn that into me saying the "architect of record" is a thief. Are you for real?
| Checkpoint43 wrote: |
Instead of encouraging this couple to move forward with their decision, which was obviously complimentary to the house's existing style, you decided to add fuel to the fire by forcing this couple to second-guess their choices. |
You do realize that you are the only person that supported the bungalow look on this traditional house form? Guess what - there were at least three people who did not support that decision. Myself, Chris and SDR.
Furthermore - now that all the information is on the table - the original post (July 26) seems to have occurred after they had hired an "architect" and probably had already hired the contractor. Peter J were just looking for conformation for their decision to go "bungalow". (Which is fine!!!) How do we know this? Because by August 11 (just 14 days later) you are reporting you been to the site and construction has started. That is pretty quick - to hire an architect - develop a series of designs - develop construction documents - bid the project to several contractors - apply and obtain a permit - marshall the subs and materials and start work. It takes at least 14 days to get a permit here.
It is fine that the original poster was second guessing themselves. However this means people are going to give their honest opinions. Unfortunately - most of those responses did not support their decision. That does not give you ground to have a burr up you tush with those of us who where lead to believe that no design decisions had been made and we tried to gave our honest opinions and advice.
Personally - if I was their architect - I'd be ticked off - SERIOUSLY TICKED OFF. Why spend money and time hiring me for my experience and skills if you're going to second guess me on some freaking public forum!!!!! Unless the architect did not do his job in assisting this client in making informed decisions so that 14 day prior to construction - they are out getting advice from people, who unlike their architect, have not spend hours working with them to understand their needs and desires - plus identify and resolve all the local code issues.
So if any of us has upset the original poster and yourself - so be it. If you come here looking for advice after the fact and my advice (or anyone else's) doesn't match what you want to hear - why am I the bad guy? |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
csintexas
millennium club
Joined: 06 Feb 2006
Posts: 2174
Location: USA
|
| Posted: Wed Sep 16, 2009 2:53 pm Post subject: |
|
|
I think you really over reacted checkpoint. This is a forum about design and so all opinions concerning this project are appropriate. We are not here to give owners comfort and security.
No one participating in this discussion would deny the owners right to like what ever they like.
You know me SDR -I only claimed copyright because I was curious about what sort of reaction it would elicit.
I think it is an improvement. Once those columns are trimmed they will look better. (and everything gets painted)
_________________
-Chris Stewart
http://bcshdb.blogspot.com >
The B/CS Home Design Blog |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Checkpoint43
Joined: 22 Mar 2007
Posts: 180
Location: Lexington, VA
|
| Posted: Wed Sep 16, 2009 4:10 pm Post subject: |
|
|
I don't think I overreacted.
Initially, I offered a photo, showing what a house, with 4 evenly spaced columns, tapered columns on brick piers - as Peter described, would look like.
The only issue in question was about the spacing.
So I posted a picture to help him visualize the outcome.
Immediately, phansford began to criticize the owners choice, saying he believed the bungalow look would be "forced" and that the home in the photo I posted was obviously not fitting, because the porch was so far above grade.
So I posted another picture, showing how such a porch would look when the porch was closer to grade.
Shortly thereafter, phansford made his accusation that I would attempt to steal CS's design ideas without having "the class to compensate you for your efforts".
Sounds like phansford is throwing the first punch.
But I ignored it, and offered to photodocument the progress of the project for the sake of the people in this forum.
"Yeah - I got class!"
Next thing you know, I see criticism about the owners choice of kurfed siding, and something about attracting groundhogs within a 5 mile radius.
That line about how "people in general don't understand good design anymore" sounded like a real slap in the face.
I felt that remark required some sort of apology.
I'm surprised phansford still doesn't see it.
As far as their architect feeling "ticked off" at their questions, they only asked about the column spacing. Hardly an issue which would put the whole project on hold.
Criticizing the wood porch, the kurfed siding, the gable vent, and even the style of posts at this stage in the game is what would cause an owner to second guess the architects design.
If the architect becomes "SERIOUSLY TICKED OFF", you can't put the blame on the owners for that now. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Checkpoint43
Joined: 22 Mar 2007
Posts: 180
Location: Lexington, VA
|
| Posted: Wed Sep 16, 2009 4:39 pm Post subject: |
|
|
And for what it's worth, I read the same original post that you did.
So dont pretend you were "lead to believe" anything different than I was. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
csintexas
millennium club
Joined: 06 Feb 2006
Posts: 2174
Location: USA
|
| Posted: Wed Sep 16, 2009 7:36 pm Post subject: |
|
|
My point is that we are here to discus design, what the owner wants is irrelevant to that discussion. (we all agree that it's their money and they should spend it as they choose)
(I also don't care about you and phansford's ongoing fight and I don't want to go back and see who started it)
But if we are just going to sit around and say "well that was the clients choice so it must be good" well I don't see any use in that.
Let's just tell them it looks good so we can be polite? Yes in real life I would tend to do that but I think the real value in an online forum is we can get away from trivial politeness. I am not saying we should go out of our way to be rude. I just think all honest design related opinions are valid whether or not they hurt the clients or our own feelings.
_________________
-Chris Stewart
http://bcshdb.blogspot.com >
The B/CS Home Design Blog |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Checkpoint43
Joined: 22 Mar 2007
Posts: 180
Location: Lexington, VA
|
| Posted: Thu Sep 17, 2009 12:02 am Post subject: |
|
|
This thread was started by a homeowner, who apparently wanted to ease the mind of his concerned wife.
Offering photos of what the project might look like was the appropriate reply.
There are plenty of other times to debate design choices.
But those debates should be between the design professionals, and not in front of homeowners who are already building.
Let me remind you again. This couple already hired an architect and the project was under construction.
Obviously, Peter J. wrote to the forum because he was trying to ease the mind of his wife.
"Look honey. Checkpoint was nice enough to post some pictures so you can see what our house would look like. If you don't like the way the columns on the porch might look, then we can discuss our potions with our architect."
"And hey! Look at the wonderful illustrations that csintexas drew. His double column designs are beautiful, too."
"Now we can calm down, and discuss our next move. We don't need to have any more BATTLES now."
"Thank you DesignCommunity Forum for all your help."
But that's not what happened, is it?
No.
Someone decided to jump in as if to say,
"Move aside people. You obviously don't know anything about design. Let ME tell you what you really want."
That's not the way to approach the subject.
Also, don't suggest that someone would say "Well, that's the clients choice, so it must be good." or "Let's tell them it looks good so we can be polite."
You should never make statements like that...in here...now...in front of the homeowners, who are reading this thread.
I mean, it's okay to disagree and discuss options and possible outcomes, but more importantly, you should be aware of your environment and the people who are looking in.
You don't engage in loud conversation in a public library. You don't reveal the ending of a movie on your way out of a theatre while other people are waiting to go in to see the show. And you don't discuss your mysterious rash in a crowded restaurant.
Phansford, I don't have an issue with architects. I have an issue with you because you can't control yourself.
You attack residential designers.
You attack me (which is rather foolish because I'm in the business of promoting architects such as yourself.)
And now you're attacking the homeowners.
I truly believe that deep down inside, there's a talented designer who is desperately trying to get out.
But by setting fire to the rest of the world around you, you're going to choke to death on all the smoke you're creating. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
csintexas
millennium club
Joined: 06 Feb 2006
Posts: 2174
Location: USA
|
| Posted: Thu Sep 17, 2009 6:54 am Post subject: |
|
|
I am aware of my environment -This is not a home design advice website, a library or a theater. If homeowners come here and ask for opinions they should be prepared to get some honest ones and see a discussion about the design.
_________________
-Chris Stewart
http://bcshdb.blogspot.com >
The B/CS Home Design Blog |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Checkpoint43
Joined: 22 Mar 2007
Posts: 180
Location: Lexington, VA
|
| Posted: Thu Sep 17, 2009 8:52 am Post subject: |
|
|
The homeowners don't know what your rules are.
All they know is this looked like a good place to get their question answered.
Read their first post:
| Quote: | Hey Folks...
I'm new here, but in need of some quick advice. |
Doesn't that give you a clue?
It's rather obvious to me. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
csintexas
millennium club
Joined: 06 Feb 2006
Posts: 2174
Location: USA
|
| Posted: Thu Sep 17, 2009 10:17 am Post subject: |
|
|
Yes and they got advise. We all gave our opinions what they do with that is their business.
In other words what I don't see is:
"My wife and I want to do this to our house. Please tell us only what we want to hear or don't say anything at all."
If they are not interested in contrary opinions or discussion about the appropriateness of the design they can simply not read further. No one is forcing them. If they did not take the time to understand the nature of this forum that is their fault. I just don't think disagreeing with someones design choices is rude in itself.
I have criticized people in the past for just making negative comments and not adding anything of value to a discussion. I just don't see it much in this case. (other than the groundhog comment and his snipping at you which I am not defending)
All I am saying is that simply discussing this addition and the appropriateness of any particular design choices is what we are here to do.
_________________
-Chris Stewart
http://bcshdb.blogspot.com >
The B/CS Home Design Blog |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Checkpoint43
Joined: 22 Mar 2007
Posts: 180
Location: Lexington, VA
|
| Posted: Thu Sep 17, 2009 10:41 am Post subject: |
|
|
And I never saw the homeowner ask:
"Please criticize our taste."
"And while you're at it, start a fight wiht the other people in the forum and suggest they have no class."
"After all, it's obvious we didn't really want our questions about column spacing and siding color answered. We really came in here to see a circus!" |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Checkpoint43
Joined: 22 Mar 2007
Posts: 180
Location: Lexington, VA
|
| Posted: Thu Sep 17, 2009 10:47 am Post subject: |
|
|
Home owners look in this forum all the time.
My advice is
Don't Bite The Hand That Feeds You. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Checkpoint43
Joined: 22 Mar 2007
Posts: 180
Location: Lexington, VA
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
csintexas
millennium club
Joined: 06 Feb 2006
Posts: 2174
Location: USA
|
| Posted: Thu Sep 17, 2009 1:12 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Checkpoint43 wrote: | And I never saw the homeowner ask:
"Please criticize our taste."
"And while you're at it, start a fight wiht the other people in the forum and suggest they have no class."
"After all, it's obvious we didn't really want our questions about column spacing and siding color answered. We really came in here to see a circus!" |
From the original post:
"Thanks for any thoughts."
Seems pretty open ended to me.
_________________
-Chris Stewart
http://bcshdb.blogspot.com >
The B/CS Home Design Blog |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
blogger
del.icio.us
digg
slashdot
