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manamana
Joined: 25 Mar 2008
Posts: 11
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 Posted: Mon Sep 21, 2009 8:37 am Post subject: PC 8 jumps to bottom layer |
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A few of us in the office (but not all) are having an issue where the lowest layer suddenly becomes the current layer. This is quite frustrating as it makes layer management even more difficult than it already is when you discover you've been drawing on the wrong layer for the last 10 minutes.
I've watched it happen in real time w/ no buttons pressed - it just jumps. And fairly often too, this morning it's been every 2 minutes or so.
PC 8 w/ all updates, OSX10.5.8, various generation mac pros
Seriously, WTH?
Thx. |
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paulprd
Joined: 12 Jan 2006
Posts: 77
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| Posted: Tue Sep 22, 2009 3:13 am Post subject: |
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Probably best to report this to ES. Doubt its a problem that will be resolved by forum as sounds like a bug.
You might try binning prefs (well defaults) before anything else. You can do a "reset PC" under help. This can solve many niggles. But beware a d-log allows to select what to re-set. This includes key commands so if you want to keep them, either back um up or de-select this option.
ta
Paul |
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Alfred Scott
Joined: 15 Apr 2004
Posts: 749
Location: Richmond, VA
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| Posted: Tue Sep 22, 2009 8:09 am Post subject: |
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I doubt this is a bug in PowerCADD.
The most important step in debugging is to start with the assumption that you have done something wrong. All the best programmers do this, and it's only when you can prove that it's not you that you look elsewhere.
I would start by making a list of all of the machines in your office and make a list of what the differences are, in particular, which other programs are running and if that doesn't reveal the problem, then look at the threads running in the Activity Monitor. At some point, you should find a pattern, then isolate the problem by quitting a suspect program until the problem is solved.
It sounds like some kind of event is being generated somewhere that causes PowerCADD to respond like this. What PowerCADD Command might do this if it were to fire off?
Alfred |
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manamana
Joined: 25 Mar 2008
Posts: 11
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| Posted: Tue Sep 22, 2009 12:16 pm Post subject: |
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That was my first assumption.
I thought for a long time that I was accidentally hitting some "go to bottom layer" shortcut while in the process of hitting other shortcuts. But I couldn't find a "go to bottom layer" in the shortcut preferences, and then I saw it happen in real time when my hand wasn't even on the keyboard. I suppose it could have been delayed in the same way that some tools occasionally hiccup though.
I've tried watching it happen and then re-doing whatever I did when it happened, and then it doesn't happen. I see no consistency to it.
As far as other software, the only common thing among those that have the problem is the logitech control center. Everything else there are others running without this issue. But I would thing that if it was the LCC, others would have run into this as well, no? It's fairly common.
hardware wise, it appears to be a mix of older (woodcrest based) mac pros and one newer one (cloverton based) there are other woodcrest based MPs working fine, and one other cloverton working fine. |
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Alfred Scott
Joined: 15 Apr 2004
Posts: 749
Location: Richmond, VA
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| Posted: Tue Sep 22, 2009 1:47 pm Post subject: |
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The simplest way to check is to get USB Overdrive, which is superior in all ways to the Logictech mouse driver software. When I got my Logitech mouse, as a programmer (if you want to call me that) I felt obligated to give the factory solution a try. Everyone had warned me away from it, and I don't remember much about it except that I threw it in the trash immediately. No comparison with USB Overdrive, which you can try for free, indeed, you can use it indefinitely if you choose to. But it's great software and they just came out with a new version for Snow Leopard.
So I think you have probably found the problem. Easy to test the solution.
(There is also Steer Mouse, which other's like).
Alfred |
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CJH
Joined: 24 Apr 2004
Posts: 351
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| Posted: Tue Sep 22, 2009 4:35 pm Post subject: |
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USB Overdrive had some issues so I had switched to Steermouse-there is now an Update for both of them for Snow Leopard, they each do basically the same thing but there are some differences:
USB Overdrive will create separate input preferences for different mice: for example, I may use a Bluetooth mouse for field work but a USB dongle mouse with more buttons for office work: Steermouse creates one set of preferences so on different mice the buttons may not act as you want.
Steermouse has a great new feature which is to assign the space bar as a modifier key to a button click: with this you can assign space-click to the middle (Scroll wheel) mouse click-now when the middle button is held down you can pan the drawing by moving the mouse, just like in Autocadd and other page layout programs. |
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manamana
Joined: 25 Mar 2008
Posts: 11
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| Posted: Wed Sep 23, 2009 7:41 am Post subject: |
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Well, last night I spent around an hour uninstalling LCC and trying to configure USB overdrive and Steermouse. Steermouse seems better with my MX revolution, and I can configure the thumbwheel how I like it - just took alot of trial and error to figure out which button in steermouse corresponded to which button on the mouse.
But, in the end, the problem is still there. It wasn't LCC. arrggh. |
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Alfred Scott
Joined: 15 Apr 2004
Posts: 749
Location: Richmond, VA
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| Posted: Wed Sep 23, 2009 11:17 am Post subject: |
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Just quit one program after another till the problem stops. And be sure to check the active threads in the Activity Monitor, and quit them one at a time. I think at some point you will see the problem stop. It's clearly an event thing.
Alfred |
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manamana
Joined: 25 Mar 2008
Posts: 11
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| Posted: Thu Oct 08, 2009 8:39 am Post subject: |
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well, I've been through everything possible, even turning off OSX processes that were obviously needed. The problem remains.
This is horridly frustrating and greatly impacts my productivity. |
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Jeffrey Jakucyk
Joined: 15 Apr 2004
Posts: 111
Location: Cincinnati, OH
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| Posted: Thu Oct 08, 2009 2:23 pm Post subject: |
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| I saw this problem too, and never found any solution. I suspect however that it relates to custom key commands. Somehow, I think the "Layer Tools" feature is being accidentally invoked, even if it's supposedly turned off. The fact that it's only intermittent suggests that it's not so simple, but that seems like a good place to start. |
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jasonlocher
Joined: 14 Apr 2004
Posts: 649
Location: Austin, Texas
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| Posted: Sun Oct 11, 2009 8:02 am Post subject: |
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| I had this problem for quite some time. The forum consensus was that I was hitting the comma key with my thumb, which moves the active layer down one row. Still doesn't explain why it would jump to the very bottom layer though. So basically, "it's your own fault". |
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paulprd
Joined: 12 Jan 2006
Posts: 77
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| Posted: Mon Oct 12, 2009 8:30 am Post subject: |
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Hi all, I did suggest right at the beginning of the thread that a "reset" of PC might be tried. I have seen some very odd behavior cured by doing this. Little corruption can creep in that give rise to very strange things. Worth a try. Back up your key commands and custom pallets first mind! Or de-select at the d-log. Well actually no back up anyway just in case 
Cheers
Paul |
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Alfred Scott
Joined: 15 Apr 2004
Posts: 749
Location: Richmond, VA
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| Posted: Mon Oct 12, 2009 2:07 pm Post subject: |
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On the machines that have the problem, do the bottom layer have the same name? And are these names different from the machines that do not have the problem?
Alfred |
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manamana
Joined: 25 Mar 2008
Posts: 11
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| Posted: Tue Oct 13, 2009 12:07 pm Post subject: |
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Alfred - in short, No.
Usually our bottom layer is a title block and is consistently named. I have tried turning that layer off, and the result is that it will simply jump to the lowest layer that's visible.
I tried a reset some time ago, but can try it again later.
it is very obviously NOT a miss-hit key. I've seen it jump over 20-30 visible layers, and as I said earlier, I've watched it happen when my hand isn't even on the keyboard. |
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Alfred Scott
Joined: 15 Apr 2004
Posts: 749
Location: Richmond, VA
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| Posted: Tue Oct 13, 2009 12:16 pm Post subject: |
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My sympathies. But all I can say is you don't know what frustration is until you try programming.
I once had a 'nightmare bug' in WildTools, something that happens from time to time, but I've never seen one worse than this. It had something to do with beziers, cutting them as I recall. I could use the tool, it would work just fine and then the next thing you did on the computer, the thing would crash. And that was back in the days when the machine crashed, you had to restart the machine.
I worked on that bug for 8 hours a day for three weeks solid. I finally found that I had broken the compiler, the rarest of types of bugs. There was, in fact, nothing 'wrong' with my programming, but when I changed something the crashes stopped.
When I was working on this Susan Stanley said she had something to send me when I fixed the bug. So a few days after I had it fixed, a package arrived in the mail. It was a transformer toy: shape of an egg, but you could fold out a head, wings and feet of a bug. She wrote a note on it: "The only good kind of bug."
Hmmm. I needed to thank her for this, so I called and Susan answered the phone.
Pause.
"You know, the last time I got a bug from a -, it wasn't as big as this."
(The word that is automatically edited out above starts with a 'G' and ends with an 'L', so shocking of me to use such a word!)
Alfred |
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