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Alfred Scott Joined: 15 Apr 2004 Posts: 749 Location: Richmond, VA	Posted: Fri Oct 30, 2009 8:00 am    Post subject: WildTools Doors & Windows Dialogs I'm presently working on converting the dialogs in WildTools to Cocoa dialogs, They are functionally the same but have a slightly more modern look with glossy buttons. In working on the Doors & Windows palette, I realized that many of the dialogs were pretty awkward, particularly the keynote, plan title, elevation indicator and detail title tools. These needed a consistent interface with a sample of the object to be placed. I've now got all that done. I am now starting to work on the Door and Window tool dialogs and I'm looking for requests for things that might be improved. The most obvious thing that could be improved is the door angle choice, presently four buttons for 30°, 45°, 90° and 180°. Seems like this should be a slider. We might also include the Door and Window tool options in the same dialog. Anything else? Don't mean to be short with anyone, but please get back with me ASAP as I will probably finish both of these before the day is out. Alfred
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John Cruet Joined: 30 Apr 2004 Posts: 352 Location: Guilford, CT	Posted: Fri Oct 30, 2009 9:01 am    Post subject: Re: WildTools Doors & Windows Dialogs Alfred Scott wrote: I'm presently working on converting the dialogs in WildTools to Cocoa dialogs, They are functionally the same but have a slightly more modern look with glossy buttons. In working on the Doors & Windows palette, I realized that many of the dialogs were pretty awkward, particularly the keynote, plan title, elevation indicator and detail title tools. These needed a consistent interface with a sample of the object to be placed. I've now got all that done. I am now starting to work on the Door and Window tool dialogs and I'm looking for requests for things that might be improved. The most obvious thing that could be improved is the door angle choice, presently four buttons for 30°, 45°, 90° and 180°. Seems like this should be a slider. I think that having both a slider for variable doorswing angles and fixed angle buttons would be the best solution. Quote: We might also include the Door and Window tool options in the same dialog. That's OK. But I think some thought ought to be given to making the window tool such that it places a more realistic graphic in the plan view. The window, in plan, should show the glass, the frame, and the sill extensions. It should also show the interior and exterior trim (frame) in plan. Showing trims should be an option. Quote: Anything else? Don't mean to be short with anyone, but please get back with me ASAP as I will probably finish both of these before the day is out. On my wish list is a tool that will develop doors and windows in elevation views, as well as plan views. _________________ John Cruet G4/733 w/1028 mb RAM & OS 10.4.10, Classic-free, skuzzy-free (runs PC7) MacBook Pro 2G Intel core duo 2 gig RAM & OS 10.5.4. PowerCadd 8, WT 9 Canon iP710 printer www.johncruet.com
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Damon Joined: 22 Sep 2004 Posts: 46 Location: Vancouver, BC	Posted: Fri Oct 30, 2009 12:35 pm    Post subject: Alfred, I use the door tool for showing garden gates as well as building doors. Can there be a setting that has a single or double gate shown with posts at the sides, rather than jambs? Set post size, possibly an optional ball finial on each post? Ideally the gate 'tool' would not require a wall for insertion. I recognize that this could be done as a symbol, but the door tool is quick and easily adjustable. _________________ Damon "Fashion is a form of ugliness so intolerable that we have to alter it every six months." Oscar Wilde
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ftribel Joined: 14 Apr 2004 Posts: 295 Location: Paris, France	Posted: Fri Oct 30, 2009 12:38 pm    Post subject: I have always problems with the windows tool : I never succeed to create the design I want, because nothing is clear. And I think it's not really adapted with thick walls (now, with new thermic regulation, we many times have 35 / 40 cm thick plain walls). It's always difficult to see if your inputs are from exterior of the wall, or from interior. And so on..
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Damon Joined: 22 Sep 2004 Posts: 46 Location: Vancouver, BC	Posted: Fri Oct 30, 2009 12:54 pm    Post subject: Salut François, You're up late. I hope not still working? I'm not sure what is not clear about the door tool. Is there anything specific you can identify? Do you need to be able to specify additional elements of the door? I did try the door tool, with a 40 cm thick wall, and set the door back 3 cm and it seems to work well. Do you want more detail, or more accurate or customizable elements for the door frames? I'm sure Alfred can do much of what you need, but it will be more successful if you can give him some specific items to look at. _________________ Damon "Fashion is a form of ugliness so intolerable that we have to alter it every six months." Oscar Wilde
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ftribel Joined: 14 Apr 2004 Posts: 295 Location: Paris, France	Posted: Fri Oct 30, 2009 1:52 pm    Post subject: I have no problem with the door's tool. Only with the window's one. I think it's difficult to make the good choices : whether the window is inside or outside, or on the middle of the wall : main difficulties with the windowsill, never as I want it. And if the window is not along the inside of the wall, how to get a line at this place ?? Maybe the tool can do all that stuff, but I always must do a lot of tests to arrive only to an approximate result. I think maybe we could have a special dimensionning window for the windowsill, and be able to chose at the fly wether the window must be inside or outside, or at a parametered dimension ???
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dcose Joined: 30 Jun 2004 Posts: 6	Posted: Fri Oct 30, 2009 2:21 pm    Post subject: Doors & Windows Would it be possible setup to select a door or window size without closing the selection box to have multiple changes before deselecting the door or window tools? I'd also like to see a window elevation setup selection similar to the cabinet door tool. Window tool could use a window grid specifier along with a line color selection for the grids.
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Damon Joined: 22 Sep 2004 Posts: 46 Location: Vancouver, BC	Posted: Fri Oct 30, 2009 2:29 pm    Post subject: François, My mistake; the window tool, not the door tool. But the points you raised are good, and would indeed be important with thick walls. I realize that I had the same issue when doing plans of stone buildings in Italy. With a thick wall it would be neat to have a 'click and drag' ability to locate the glass location within the frame. A box to enter the exact measurement would be necessary, of course. Does the window tool box need the wall thickness to be shown? _________________ Damon "Fashion is a form of ugliness so intolerable that we have to alter it every six months." Oscar Wilde
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ftribel Joined: 14 Apr 2004 Posts: 295 Location: Paris, France	Posted: Fri Oct 30, 2009 2:55 pm    Post subject: Quote: Does the window tool box need the wall thickness to be shown? As an option, maybe. But not in the main use, it would lose its "sketching" ability..
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Peter Severin Carlsen Joined: 29 Oct 2004 Posts: 105 Location: St. Paul, Minnesota	Posted: Mon Nov 02, 2009 5:59 pm    Post subject: I'd like to be able to control the placement of the glass line in window so that it is not always in the middle of a wall or frame. A storefront window often has the glass set back only 1 or 1 1/2" from the outside face. I'd like to be able to control the distance an overhead door is from the wall it closes against. It seems a little arbitrary right now. I'd like to have the pocket in pocket doors have the option of a solid fill so that it covers a fill below and shows more clearly as a pocket... And there really isn't a good symbol for a sliding glass door. Peter _________________ Peter Carlsen
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Rob C Joined: 14 Apr 2004 Posts: 573 Location: Southern Connecticut	Posted: Mon Nov 02, 2009 8:20 pm    Post subject: The best way to give the user exactly the look they want for a door or window is to allow an option to place a user created symbol. Example: ever since doing my own house, I'm developed the habit of drawing casement windows in plan to include the swing, just like a door symbol. _________________ Rob www.robertcoolidge.com
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Gilb Joined: 02 Mar 2009 Posts: 5	Posted: Tue Nov 03, 2009 6:31 am    Post subject: Windows: Would it be possible to have panes of different width in a window? For example if you have a 48" window with 3 panes. I would like to have 2 panes of 12" and 1 pane of 24". Doors: Then same for double doors, be able to have on one side 30" door and a 24" door on the other side.
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Jeffrey Jakucyk Joined: 15 Apr 2004 Posts: 111 Location: Cincinnati, OH	Posted: Tue Nov 03, 2009 8:17 am    Post subject: Looks like most of this stuff is getting rather esoteric and would unnecessarily complicate things. That said, I do think the idea of a door swing angle slider is a good idea, but only if you can also manually enter the angle as well, or at least see a readout of what angle the slider has chosen. If I were to choose just one more angle to add, it would be 170° because 180° just causes the door panel to slam into the wall and basically disappear, but rotating the door back just a little bit shows exactly what it is. For windows, and jambs, sill conditions, etc., I don't think there's any way to satisfy all possible needs without really cluttering up the tools.
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Alfred Scott Joined: 15 Apr 2004 Posts: 749 Location: Richmond, VA	Posted: Tue Nov 03, 2009 8:34 am    Post subject: I spoke a little too soon since once I got into the tool, I saw that the door angle choice is hard-coded at fixed angles, so for now I am leaving it as is. But thanks for all the ideas and I'll revisit this when I'm finished with the transition to Cocoa dialogs. When I do a transition like this, I like to focus on one thing only and it makes the process much easier. I now have done over 250 of the 350 dialogs in WildTools. It's pretty boring, almost-clerical work. Alfred
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patrickm Joined: 13 Apr 2004 Posts: 399 Location: santa barbara, ca	Posted: Tue Nov 03, 2009 9:07 am    Post subject: I like Rob's idea about showing the casement window swings -- I always draw them in later, but would love to skip that step. Glad to read that you are working on WildTools, Alfred. Can't wait for the next evolution of everything (even though I am quite satisfied with my current PC8/WT9 combo).
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