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lavardera
Joined: 13 Apr 2004
Posts: 422
Location: merchantville, nj
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 Posted: Sun May 09, 2004 8:09 pm Post subject: PowerCadd and page layout for press |
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I am wondering if Powercadd can replace my aging copy of pagemaker to serve for a page layout. I would like to use it to generate press ready PDF files.
As far as I can tell there is no problem placing CMYK tiff files in PowerCadd and the resultant PDF files appear to have the proper color separations.
However to go to a four color press then any solid colors in the layout also have to be defined as a CMYK and this is where I am unsure if Powercadd can do this. The OSx system color pickers include a CMYK picker, but I am not convinced that simply using this picker to mix a color ensures the color definition is printed to postscript as a CMYK color. You understand that if it does not, then the postscript file will call for another color separation to print a spot color for every solid color in the layout instead of mixing it out of the CMYK.
Is anybody out there experienced with Powercadd and color separations in this regard?
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greg |
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huc
Joined: 13 Apr 2004
Posts: 661
Location: ::caddpower.com:: (Aurora, CO)
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| Posted: Mon May 10, 2004 7:32 am Post subject: |
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| You may want to investigate Apple's ColorSync Utility which can be used to create press ready PDF/X files among many other neat features (requires Panther). |
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lavardera
Joined: 13 Apr 2004
Posts: 422
Location: merchantville, nj
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| Posted: Mon May 10, 2004 8:17 am Post subject: |
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I have the current version of Acrobat and Distiller, so I can create the PDF files for pess - thats not a problem.
This is what I am concerned about. In Pagemaker you can choose in the color palette what type of color it is - spot color (meaning it gets printed with an ink that is that color) or process color (meaning it gets printed in separate screens of CMYK ink).
Now in Powercadd we are using system level color pickers, and we can use several different methods to select a color including CMYK. But you can always go in and edit a color from the palette using any of the color pickers you choose - there does not appear to be a way to designate a color to print to CMYK separations. So when I print to a postscript file from Powercadd, and Distill it to a press ready PDF, where along the way do we tell it that all colors are process colors or which are spot colors.
The answer may be that you don't - that this is handled at the press level when you print the film from the PDF, or when you print the PDF to the digital press, or it may be handled via Quark after placing the PDF in the Quark document.
Has anybody done this before?
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PaulH
Joined: 16 Apr 2004
Posts: 21
Location: Los Angeles, CA
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| Posted: Mon May 10, 2004 1:04 pm Post subject: |
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Lavadera,
I've found going to a digital press thru either PC or SketchUp too unreliable for color control. I take the extra step or steps as the case may be, and use Illustrator or InDesign. I've stopped using Pagemaker. It's a bit painful because I have to go back and call out all CMYK colors from a Pantone book. In other words screen draws at RGB and press ready files are translated to CMYK within AI or ID and then checked against Pantone. Pain in the ass, but the colors are fabulous. And I ALWAYS get a press proof. If you have found a beter work around please advise.
By the way, that was a nice little drawing you posted in the SketchUp Q&A here in the forum regarding linking to PC. SketchUp is . . . well I don't know what I would do without it at this point. Great program, fabulous support. Just like the folks at Engineered Software.
PaulH |
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lavardera
Joined: 13 Apr 2004
Posts: 422
Location: merchantville, nj
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| Posted: Mon May 10, 2004 1:21 pm Post subject: |
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I'm not sure what you mean by color control - sounds like color fidelity. I am more concerned with spot colors not printing at all if they are not defined as process colors. I am consulting with a friend in graphics to see if I can learn more.
I can go to other software, but it would be a shame to have to use a professional graphics package to do a display ad once or twice a year. If I could go from PowerCadd to press via PDF, that would be ideal.
My fall back - I can layout the entire ad in Powercadd, export a high res tiff image and convert it to CMYK, but text just does not print as sharp with this approach.
BTW, images from sketchup go to press easily by converting to a CMYK tiff.
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greg |
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PaulH
Joined: 16 Apr 2004
Posts: 21
Location: Los Angeles, CA
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| Posted: Mon May 10, 2004 4:27 pm Post subject: |
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| What I was addressing is color matching. There are times (design review boards, brand presentations) where I need to match paint, stain, and screen (ink) colors. We also do brand development and marketing along with the architectural services for our clients and the mix between graphic issues and Cad issues requires a degree of precision on press that is demanding. The owner of our printing house tells me that the print industry will have incorporated all PDF workflows that will elliminate most color and typography issues by years end. We'll see. How that translates into our world is a mystery to me, but it's encouraging. |
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lavardera
Joined: 13 Apr 2004
Posts: 422
Location: merchantville, nj
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| Posted: Mon May 10, 2004 5:36 pm Post subject: |
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I appreciate the comments but color matching is not my issue.
I suspect that nobody has really tried this before and I am going to have to discover what is going on. If there was a way to designate process color I imagine at least Bill Stanley would know about it! So the it remains to be seen how Acrobat, Quark, and the digital press will handle it. I'll report back.
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greg |
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lavardera
Joined: 13 Apr 2004
Posts: 422
Location: merchantville, nj
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| Posted: Mon May 10, 2004 9:09 pm Post subject: It works! |
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I ran a trial by placing 5 cmyk tiff images on a page in Powercadd, adding some black linework and text, some colored blocks and text and printing to postscript, then distilling to a PDF for press. The PDF file when previewed in Acrobat with the "Preview Separations" function you can observe clearly that all the colored items are being treated as cmyk process colors, and even the black items are rendered as a rich-black using all 4 inks.
Excellent. Forget about pagemaker for these little jobs. I can do them in PowerCadd now.
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greg |
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Rob C
Joined: 14 Apr 2004
Posts: 533
Location: Southern Connecticut
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| Posted: Tue May 11, 2004 9:40 pm Post subject: Colorsync, color reproduction and PowerCADD |
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If you really want to know about Colorsync, I recommend this book: Real World Color Management
http://www.peachpit.com/title/0201773406
Here are a few key facts I learned
• The operating system works in RGB and doesn't know anything about CMYK (sure the color picker lets you enter CMYK values, but it converts them to RGB)
• An Epson, Canon or Hewlett Packard ink jet printer may print with CMYK (and other) inks, but from the operating system to the driver, they are driven as RGB devices
• An application has to be written to be aware of ColorSync for it to work. PowerCADD, MS Word, Excel, Explorer, are all examples of applications that are not ColorSync aware. Photoshop, Illustrator, InDesign are color managed.
I've gotten colorsync working well in house now because of this book. I recommend it to everyone else wanting to understand color on their computer.
Rob |
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lavardera
Joined: 13 Apr 2004
Posts: 422
Location: merchantville, nj
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| Posted: Tue May 11, 2004 9:57 pm Post subject: |
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help!  my thread is getting overrun by colorsync!
Thanks for the info Rob. I am not printing to an inkjet, I am submitting a file to go to press, and it will most certainly be printed cmyk. I'm not actually concerned about color fidelity as much as not botching the file.
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greg |
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lavardera
Joined: 13 Apr 2004
Posts: 422
Location: merchantville, nj
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| Posted: Thu May 13, 2004 7:09 pm Post subject: |
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Well my layout was done in Powercadd and the PDF file is off to the publisher today. Their production people are going to look at it and let me know if there are any problems. I will report back!
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greg |
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lavardera
Joined: 13 Apr 2004
Posts: 422
Location: merchantville, nj
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| Posted: Mon May 17, 2004 12:29 pm Post subject: |
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The production people say the PDF file is fine! There you have it. I easily went from a page layout in PowerCadd to a press ready PDF file via Distiller. Now we know it can be done.
Calling the Bullpen, come in Bullpen...
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greg |
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Bullpen
Joined: 13 Apr 2004
Posts: 12
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| Posted: Mon May 17, 2004 1:28 pm Post subject: |
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| lavardera wrote: | The production people say the PDF file is fine! There you have it. I easily went from a page layout in PowerCadd to a press ready PDF file via Distiller. Now we know it can be done.
Calling the Bullpen, come in Bullpen... |
Yooouuu Raannng?
I can see it all now: "Greg's guide. Ready. Set. Press!"
If you'd like to send us the complete story we'll be happy to put it up 
Thanks in advance,
Bullpen.
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lavardera
Joined: 13 Apr 2004
Posts: 422
Location: merchantville, nj
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| Posted: Mon May 17, 2004 5:55 pm Post subject: |
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Will do - theres really not much to report but I'll share what I learned. I know others have more experience with this, but for whatever reason they have not spoken up.
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greg |
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GaryV
Joined: 13 Apr 2004
Posts: 227
Location: Walnut Creek, CA
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| Posted: Mon May 17, 2004 9:30 pm Post subject: Distiller Version? |
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Greg, how do you use the Distiller in OSX? Does the latest version of Acrobat (which I have not bought yet) have an X version of Distiller as I know my copy (5.xx) only has a Classic Distiller.
Just curious. Is it worth upgrading to 6? I use Apple's built in a lot but the full version often comes in handy. If you own 6, or anyone else, is it worth the upgrade?
Gary |
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